Whisper of a Rose

[IkimashoZ]

You'd like that the creator would at least be so kind as to tell the people who bought his broken software what the deal was. It's really too bad. The screenshots for the game are visually stunning. What happens when you try to run the game? Does it do anything?

[windbneathwings]

You'd like that the creator would at least be so kind as to tell the people who bought his broken software what the deal was. It's really too bad. The screenshots for the game are visually stunning. What happens when you try to run the game? Does it do anything?

ran the game, found lots of glitches that got me stuck and can only be solved by restarting from save point. finished the "love tower" quest and waiting for patch for the valentown sidequest and the fix for very, very low attack point and hard leveling up because beyond this point it would be too painful for me to continue the quest with this kind of problems.

[IkimashoZ]

Huh. Well, maybe the creator suddenly contracted a terrible illness and let the game and site go...? I can't imagine going to the trouble of creating such a game, and getting it that close to complete and then just abandoning it.

[Elder]

According to the creator Whisper of a Rose will be released during December to take advantage of the christmas rush.

[windbneathwings]

an updates directly from creator would be nice.

[Paralel]

According to the creator Whisper of a Rose will be released during December to take advantage of the christmas rush.

What about the people that have already purchased a broken game?

[Elder]

According to the creator Whisper of a Rose will be released during December to take advantage of the christmas rush.

What about the people that have already purchased a broken game?

Yes I know… it's a shame and it’s disrespectful to people who have purchased the game.

This kind of story is the reason why I’ve decided to remove affiliate games from my website recently. Some people thought Whisper of a Rose was made by me and since Rose Portal website is down they emailed me with complaints.

When Soleyu RPG Channel will be online every games will be tested before being announced.

[Paralel]

I don't like seeing people get screwed, so I'm going to do something about it.

The link below is for the source files I unpacked from "Whisper of a Rose", this will allow anyone that has paid for the game to alter it so the bugs can be bypassed. In order to alter the game you will need to use RPG Maker XP, you can download a demo of it for free.

[Hyperlink removed - PM me if you want it]

If you don't know anything about scripting, etc... you may find RPG Maker XP difficult to work with at first, but if you give yourself a little time the learning curve isn't too steep.

[Elder]

Hey Paralel, I agree with your opinion, it’s a shame that so many people got screwed but I was forced to remove your hyperlink to avoid trouble, I don't wish someone else willing to take legal actions against me haha

[Mizzou]

According to the creator Whisper of a Rose will be released during December to take advantage of the christmas rush.

Thanks for the update, Elder. I just wish it had come directly from the maker of the game. With the lack of updates from the maker and the game's website down, it seemed like it just disappeared and was never coming out. As someone who has purchased the game, I find it very disrespectful that he's waiting until December (obviously for the money) and not taking care of his existing customers. One thing that I like about Blossomsoft and several other indie game makers that I've purchased games from, and have since become a loyal customer to, is the good customer service that they have provided when there have been problems. RosePortal hasn't been one of them.

[Paralel]

Hey Paralel, I agree with your opinion, it’s a shame that so many people got screwed but I was forced to remove your hyperlink to avoid trouble, I don't wish someone else willing to take legal actions against me haha

That's understandable and reasonable, anyone that wants the link can PM me for it.

[webgrunt]

The people who purchased this game and did not get refunds were victims of theft by fraud. That's a pretty strong accusation I know, but I saw the evidence with my own eyes.

I was one of the first people who purchased this game back in early May, and I have pieced together the following by extracting the game contents and examining them with the program with which it was created (RPG Maker XP)

The game wasn't anywhere near finished when it was released. It had some game-breaking bugs, but they fixed the first few, however, fairly early in the game, there was one that they claimed they were unable to fix (though it took me two seconds to fix it with RPG maker). It was obvious that AJ (Arend-Jan, the creator of the game) put that bug in intentionally in order to hide the fact that there really wasn't anything after that point--Whisper of a Rose was released as a full game, but it was really only the beginning of an unfinished game. I reported this on their message board, and their response was to accuse me of "hacking the game" as though I had done something wrong. Excuse me, but if I buy something and it doesn't work, I think I have the right to take it apart to see why it isn't working. And of course I only accessed my copy--I didn't change anyone else's copy of the game and wouldn't be able to if I tried.

Other people had examined the game and mentioned this on AJ's web site, roseportalgames.com. Those posts were deleted. AJ blamed the "bugs" on "beta testers who were more interested in getting an early version of the game than testing for bugs" which makes no sense, because why would they approve an unplayable game either way?

I requested a refund and immediately received a response from him, "Refund Granted!" However, he did not refund my money. I wrote him several emails over the next week asking why, and he didn't respond--but he had plenty of time to post messages on the chat board, so I know it wasn't that he was too busy or unable to get online. Finally, I contacted Plimus (the company I purchased it through) and explained that I had never received the refund he said he granted me, and they refunded my money.

At one point, AJ actually admitted that he thought there "might be a few bugs" but released the game anyway because he needed the money for a field trip for school.

At first, AJ used "taking my finals" as an excuse for not "fixing the bugs." After finals were over and people started getting eager to continue their game, AJ then started saying he was taking extra time to revamp the game and make improvements. After about a month of saying the release would be "soon" and the bugs were not fixed, I noticed that he was still selling the game as a finished, working game. I pointed this out and accused him of fraud. His answer was that every software company released programs that have bugs. I replied that I knew the game wasn't finished because I and others had examined it, and that if he didn't stop selling the game, I was going to turn my evidence (screenshots of what I found when I examined the game) over to Plimus. He agreed to stop selling the game and he stopped selling it from his site.

However, six weeks after that, I noticed that new people kept coming into the Rose Portal message board and asking about the "bug" that stopped everyone from progressing in the game. I asked Arend-Jan how this could be, and he said that resellers were still selling his game. Apparently, he didn't feel it necessary to tell them to stop selling a broken and unfinished game as long as he had money coming in. I had already notified Blossomsoft, and they stopped selling the game immediately, but other companies were still selling it, and AJ kept stringing them along, more and more people massing their 30-day window in which they could obtain a refund.

At one point, I asked him on the message board if the game was likely to be finished in six weeks. He said that sounded right. Soon after that, he said that the beta testing of the game was completed. I waited until exactly twelve weeks after he agreed that it should be finished in six weeks, quoted his message, and asked him what the delay was about. I was gentle and respectful, because I wanted to give him every possible chance to prove me wrong about him being a fraud and a thief. I really wanted to believe he was a good kid who made a mistake but was doing his best to fix it. He didn't answer, and very shortly after that, he took down the Rose Portal games site.

To me, the evidence that AJ knowingly sold a broken, unfinished game as a fully working product is irrefutable. However, a lot of people sided with AJ, believing him to be a good kid at heart (He's only 18 years old) and they liked him for producing such a great partially-finished game and didn't want to upset him in case he decided not to finish it--which I do understand, as the little bit he did finish is one of the best FF-style games I've ever played (and I've played a lot of great ones.) I consider him to be a master storyteller, perhaps even a prodigy, but I realize that having extraordinary talent doesn't mean you're immune to laziness, greed and dishonesty. You can be a great artist and a huge jerk at the same time. Talent doesn't make people honest. However, he has a good deal of charm, even through a chat board, and people tend to trust him in spite of all evidence that they shouldn't.

AJ had to know when he released the game that only a small part of it had been coded and the rest was simply not there. There's no possible way a programmer could be unaware that his game was mostly unfinished. Yet he released it for sale and continued to sell it even on his main site until I called him out on it, continually denied that it was unfinished, kept telling people it would be "fixed soon", at one point even said beta testing on the new release was complete, and he never told the resellers to stop selling it--for all I know, some of them still are.

Now he's saying he's going to wait until December to release it?? What about all the people who bought it back in May and have been waiting all this time for a playable release?

I will never buy another of Arend-Jan's products until it's been out for a few months and even then I will only buy through Blossomsoft, because Blossomsoft has the integrity to stop selling games the instant they find out the games have serious problems.

[webgrunt]

According to the creator Whisper of a Rose will be released during December to take advantage of the christmas rush.

I hope that it will be fully play-tested before release. I know it's impossibly time-consuming to do this with every game, but I'd imagine you'd want to, after what happened to the people who purchased Whisper of a Rose and didn't request refunds in time to qualify for them. At the very least, you could ask him to guarantee that he has personally verified that the game is completely playable and free from any game-killing bugs.

[webgrunt]

Right now I am playing Laxius Force. Love it! And NO problems!

Agreed. Laxius Force II is the same (bug free)--and it's HUGE. I've been playing for a week at least and I'm still not finished. Andorlea puts out quality, first-class RPGs. Their customer service is great as well!

[Paralel]

Actually, Laxius Force II, before version 1.6, had some fairly serious bugs. However, it only impacted a small number of individuals and was promptly fixed by the creator. That's how it should be handled. Bugs are to be expected, especially when software is written by a very small company or a single individual, but as is the case for EE, Aveyond, Laxius, etc... they are all dealt with in a timely and professional manner. This is what is expected with regard to customer service, and in the cases of the aforementioned companies, is delivered.

The creator of WoaR is obviously nothing more than a charlatan. Anyone that couldn't get a refund through their usual channels should contact their state Attorney General, the Better Business Bureau, their credit card company or bank (depending on how they paid for it), as well as the US Dept. of Justice and file formal complaints. This is a serious matter, he violated federal laws (as it involves interstate commerce), and very easily crossed into the territory of criminal misconduct, as he willfully misrepresented what he sold as a feature complete product when it can be easily proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that it wasn't and he knew it. Since it involved the exchange of monies it is wire fraud, deceptive and misleading statements with the intent to defraud, etc... just to name a few. If people wanted to push the issue he could be in very deep civil and criminal trouble at the federal and state levels.

If he was smart he would refund everyone's monies, and if he can't, move to another country that doesn't have an extradition treaty with the US as any number of angry people could make this a serious issue which could destroy him financially and socially as being a felon tends to close most doors for employment and usually makes one a pariah, not to mention the difficulty ofin repaying any sizable financial settlement against him. Being 18 I doubt he had any idea how serious this all could be and that it could destroy the rest of his life, but as the old saying goes, ignorance is not a defense under the law. Personally, I hope they hold his feet to the coals for the damage this has done to the independent game developing community at large.

[Elder]

I agree that this whole story sounds like a fraud, but let’s not take legal actions against him. It represents 20 bucks from your personal pocket, it’s frustrating yes, but it doesn’t worth the desire to ruin his life or send him to jail. Boycott his product, it’s a balanced measure. I’m not trying to protect crimes, but we’ve all been 18 sometime in our life (or you will be) and we’ve all committed immature mistakes to some extends. Punishment isn’t always the best form of teaching. If he’s mature enough he will make things better next time, but of course if he willingly persists to repeat this kind of bad practices then I agree that you must stop him.

[Elder]

Note: besides I have removed all affialiate games from Blossomsoft because of this type of issues.

[Paralel]

I have to disagree with you, Elder. Any 18 year old, unless mentally impaired, knows that fraud is wrong. He did it willfully, and he continued to lie to everyone to cover up his fraudulent behavior. He knew what he was doing was wrong, otherwise he wouldn't have tried to cover it up by lying. He should be made to answer for his crimes and I hope someone will pursue it to the full extent of the law.

[Elder]

I admit that making apologies on his website or a solid word of explanation would have been a first big step for Arend-Jen.

[webgrunt]

I have to disagree with you, Elder. Any 18 year old, unless mentally impaired, knows that fraud is wrong. He did it willfully, and he continued to lie to everyone to cover up his fraudulent behavior. He knew what he was doing was wrong, otherwise he wouldn't have tried to cover it up by lying. He should be made to answer for his crimes and I hope someone will pursue it to the full extent of the law.

I agree, and AJ had many opportunities to correct his mistake. I wouldn't advocate sending him to prison for making one mistake, but the fact that he continued to sell the game for months after it was obvious it didn't work seems to indicate that he felt no remorse about taking people's money under false pretenses. If he had at any point come clean and admitted his "mistake", I would have been the first to forgive him and encourage him to try again. Though the law would probably not be so forgiving, considering what he did appears to be a pretty clear case of international fraud.

And I'm still not saying AJ should go to prison. He should have to refund everyone, plus interest, plus pay a fine, and have a period of probation. I think you would agree that's only fair. If he does it a second time, then maybe some time in jail would be called for, but when you're that young and it's your first offense, just restitution and a token fine should be enough. Hopefully he's learned his lesson and won't repeat the mistake. Man, could he make a lot of money by putting out completed games. His talent is outstanding.

[DaveGilbert]

Hi everyone! Finally came out of lurker mode.

This WoaR issue is one that has bothered me for awhile. I was one of the lucky ones. I was impressed enough by the game that I asked AJ to be a beta tester in exchange for a refund. He did so, but then dropped off the map before I could test out a new version of the game.

Like Elder and others here, I am a game developer myself. And as a game developer, I know the bitter "D'oh!" feeling of accidentally releasing a game with bugs in it. Most indie game customers understand that the games are made by just one person, and are willing to put up with a few rough edges provided that the developer is willing to make amends and fix them. When I released my last game, the webstore was sending out corrupted versions of the gamefile to all the customers and I spent two days straight trying to sort what was wrong. I made sure that the customers were aware that I was on top of the problem and that I was working really hard to fix it. The result? The customers were extremely supportive and even sent me very encouraging messages during the process. It's times like that which make being an indie developer so rewarding.

But... A.J. of RosePortal did none of that. He issued no apology, no statement, not even a "please stand by." He just let the weeks tick by with no word. But even STILL, the customers on his forum were supportive and willing to wait. Even your posts, Webgrunt, were extremely supportive. The outpouring of support on the RosePortal forum blew my mind. But now that he's nabbed the money and disappeared into the virtual ether, it's hard to give him that same support, regardless of how potentially awesome his game might have been.

At least, this whole debacle teaches all of us a lesson. In a don't-do-what-that-guy-did kind of way.

Anyway, sorry to come to this thread so late. I've had mixed feelings about this issue for a while and this seemed like a good place to vent them. Nice place you've got here, Elder.

-Dave

[Elder]

Hey Dave!

Thank you very much for registering and thank you for the insights

Everyone, visit Dave's website because he's making great games

[webgrunt]

Well said, Dave, and thank you.

[Elder]

So do you believe indy developers should boycott his game?

For example do you believe that if Amanda decide to sell his game on Amaranth Games during the christmas rush could be an offense to customers that already bought the game?

What is your opinion?

[aislingyngaio]

I think she should smack his head multiple times and extract an iron clad non-disappearance promise from him before ever considering to sell his games again :3 However deserving everyone is of a second chance, he should acknowledge he did wrong and take steps to not do so again, and its the responsibility of the entire indie community to weed out black sheeps.