BLOSSOMSOFT

by **Samus** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 5:33 am

Who else is waiting madly for Black Sigil?

This game will be an instant classic. For anyone who loved the Old School Rpg feel of Chrono Trigger or Secret of Mana will fall in love with this game. Check out the trailer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFcHvakg4-M

by **Eclipse** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 7:15 am

I was following this game while it was still on GBA, it looked promising and lost touch with it, saw it was moving to DS and haven't heard much since. Now it looks like it might still be facing some trouble. The title is not anywhere to be seen on the graffiti website and it has missed it's Q2 release. Unless of course it came out and I missed it.

EDIT, I found the videos under the Download section, but nothing under games. A search on eBay brought up that it was for sale, it looks like a pre-release for 10-14-08. Amazon lists it for November 15th....so strange. I wonder why it isn't like a headliner on the Graffiti site and when it is actually coming out, and if it will be any good

.

by **Kinta** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 9:28 am

Wow, the trailer looks great!
This looks exactly like the kind of RPG that I'd like to play on my DS!
GBA would be okay, too.

Kinta

by **pandora wizard** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:14 pm

Official boxart:

Looks great!

by **sonic_reaper** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:08 pm

Really looking forward to it but I question when (or if) it will be released. It was originally listed as being released during Q2, then it was moved to September, then to October and now I'm hearing it might be November (some sites still list an October release date). I've had a chance to talk to the head of Studio Archcraft and he said the game was completed, but there were other hurdles to overcome before the release.

by **Elder** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:46 pm

I'm friend with the maker of Black Sigil on MSN, he is from Montreal, and I can assure that the game will be released.

In the gaming history most great games have been delayed such Zelda, Resident Evil and Final Fantasy. It cannot be much different with indie developers.

I think too that Black Sigil looks very promising, probably one of the most appealing old-school RPG.

From time to time I take a moment to watch Western Lords (NDS) on gamespot with a tear running down my cheek (he-he-he)

by **koketsu** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 5:02 pm

This game is looks exactly what I've been looking for, I can't wait to try this out.

by **chaffman** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 5:21 pm

Holy damn, one word to describe this game: plagiarism.

by **Kankles** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 7:37 pm

Lenny Jr wrote:Holy damn, one word to describe this game: plagiarism.

No lenny just no. Is it inspired by chrono, yeah, they even admit that on thier website. But there is a huge gap between inspired by and plagiarism.

This game has been on my games to get list for quite sometime, too bad its going head to head with the real chrono. I'll get it but I think alot of people will just get Chrono.

by **chaffman** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 8:19 pm

Meh.

I accuse Eternal Eden of plagiarism too for blatantly stealing ideas from the bible and Zelda 3. I’m frankly disappointed with indy games nowadays.

My two cents.

by **rob** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 8:53 pm

Lenny Jr wrote:Meh.

I accuse Eternal Eden of plagiarism too for blatantly stealing ideas from the bible and Zelda 3. I’m frankly disappointed with indy games nowadays.

My two cents.

And every RPG steals from Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy by having characters you can play, overworld maps, uhh puzzles, dialogue, a similar style of music
??

It's a dumb argument. It's impossible to make a completely original game these days.

by **Kankles** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 12:45 am

rob wrote:
Lenny Jr wrote:Meh.

I accuse Eternal Eden of plagiarism too for blatantly stealing ideas from the bible and Zelda 3. I’m frankly disappointed with indy games nowadays.

My two cents.

And every RPG steals from Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy by having characters you can play, overworld maps, uhh puzzles, dialogue, a similar style of music
??

It's a dumb argument. It's impossible to make a completely original game these days.

Both of which stole from Ultima which stole from DnD which stole from tolkien, which stole from various mythologies, which tend to be to old to tell where they stole from.

...so as you said everything steals.

by **rob** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 1:12 pm

Kankles wrote:
rob wrote:
Lenny Jr wrote:Meh.

I accuse Eternal Eden of plagiarism too for blatantly stealing ideas from the bible and Zelda 3. I’m frankly disappointed with indy games nowadays.

My two cents.

And every RPG steals from Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy by having characters you can play, overworld maps, uhh puzzles, dialogue, a similar style of music
??

It's a dumb argument. It's impossible to make a completely original game these days.

Both of which stole from Ultima which stole from DnD which stole from tolkien, which stole from various mythologies, which tend to be to old to tell where they stole from.

...so as you said everything steals.

Yep. I don't know why I bothered replying to him anyways. I checked all of his posts so far and everything is negative bullshit. Just your typical troll.

by **xerxes** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 6:49 pm

I've been keeping an eye on this for several months. It's almost exactly like chrono trigger in terms of animation, battle system seems to be a toss up with FFIII and SoM. It will be great!

by **Master Sword** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:07 pm

Black Sigil: Blade of The Exiled is a game I have had my eye on for a long 2 years. It originally went by the name Black Sigil on the GBA and got canceled and became known as Project Exile. This game is now being published by Graffiti Entertainment. It looks like an INSTANT classic. It holds the snes classic RPG feel but looks and plays great on the DS!!!

by **pandora wizard** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 6:10 am

I've been waiting for this for a long time now and it's about time it sees the light of day.

here's the developer website http://www.studioarchcraft.com/project.htm

by **Kinta** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 11:00 am

I've joined the forum there but it seems to be quite abandoned. It's very sad that the status of the project is so uncertain, because it looks very promising and would certainly buy it (except for the case that it gets really bad reviews which I don't believe).

Kinta

by **Blackthirteen** » Sun Oct 05, 2008 2:05 am

They worked really hard on this game. I think it's going to be very good.

by **Albedo** » Sun Oct 05, 2008 7:14 am

Personally, I can't wait for Black Sigil either! If they ever do finish it... Every time we get close to a release date, Studio Archcraft swoops down and pushes the game back another quarter.

by **ironfist** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 5:08 am

This is a really bad boxart...

This thread is quite funny and worry me at the same time, http://www.yabbers.com/phpbb/viewtopic. ... oarchcraft

I'm unsure if Grafitti is the right choice of publisher... I have a bad feeling aboutthis. Why not Atlus???

by **Kinta** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:16 am

ironfist wrote:This is a really bad boxart...

I agree although I really like the artwork. But the rest looks... crappy...

Kinta

by **Blackthirteen** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:50 am

That's true, this boxart doesn't look good at all, especially when it's coming from a publisher. The role of a publisher is to pay professional artists to make this kind of promotional works and ensure a good publicity campaign. This boxart looks as if it was done by someone who tried Photoshop for the very first time.

Grafitti Entertainment remind me of Alten8, but they look better though. They seems to announce better titles so far, and Black Sigil is their most promising one. Grafitti has also published Maze of Fate, anyone tried it? The reviews seemed nice.

Besides the behavior of the CEO in that thread isn't sounding very welcoming towards authentic fans of the game, even if I admit those members sounded like trolls.

by **Kankles** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 8:24 am

Blackthirteen wrote:Grafitti has also published Maze of Fate, anyone tried it? The reviews seemed nice.

I saw it, maze of fate DS, at EB games on saturday, which at very least means that Grafitti is getting the games onto shelves. I didn't by it because A)I was in there to buy a few games in particular, and B) there reviews are bad. http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages4/944644.asp

by **sonic_reaper** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 5:19 pm

I've played the original Mazes of Fate and it wasn't anything to write home about.

by **Rosshill** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:21 pm

sonic_reaper wrote:I've played the original Mazes of Fate and it wasn't anything to write home about.

Yes it was quite ordinary...

by **M&M** » Mon Oct 27, 2008 8:28 am

Looks like there’s now an official announcement, November 15th 2008

http://ds.ign.com/index/release.html

by **M&M** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 10:41 am

It's officially announced for Christmas!!

Source = Studio Archcraft!

by **Elder** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 11:40 am

I can't wait myself for this game. Even ifmy budget is pretty tight (at this moment) I will do my best to purchase this game, I know what it is to be an indy developer and work hard in hope to see the outcome of efforts become successful.

I pray very strongly for their success too

by **Kinta** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 2:49 pm

M&M wrote:It's officially announced for Christmas!!

Source = Studio Archcraft!

Can you link to the page where this was written? I can't find it on the official pages. On the Graffiti page it is written that the release date is still TBA 2008.

I can't wait for this game, too. It looks so great!

Kinta

by **Eclipse** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 5:05 pm

I will try and hunt down a copy at retail if it turns out pretty good, which I hope is the case. I would love for all their hard work to pay off and it become a hit

.

by **ironfist** » Tue Nov 18, 2008 4:15 am

Kinta wrote:
M&M wrote:It's officially announced for Christmas!!

Source = Studio Archcraft!

Can you link to the page where this was written? I can't find it on the official pages. On the Graffiti page it is written that the release date is still TBA 2008.

I can't wait for this game, too. It looks so great!

Kinta

http://www.yabbers.com/phpbb/viewtopic. ... oarchcraft

third post.

by **xerxes** » Wed Nov 26, 2008 1:37 pm

Wonderful! Let's hope it delivers.

by **Kinta** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:17 pm

Seems like the release date is now REALLY official! It's coming in march!

Source

Kinta

by **sonic_reaper** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 6:21 pm

Well it's about time. I will definitely be picking this game up without question. I want to support indie developers and I love the look and style of games Black Sigil is looking to emulate.

by **Eclipse** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:59 pm

Can't wait to finally get my hands on this one, it's been so long coming, I hope it's worth the wait!

by **Elder** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 10:46 am

Now it's getting serious :

http://www.gamespot.com/ds/rpg/projecte ... alls;img;1

I'll be the first one to encourage them

Besides that's funny because I still have the engine of Black Sigil during the time Pierre and I talked together. I have a very rare artifact! I will be able to sell it for $100.000 when the game become famous :lol:

by **Kinta** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:35 pm

The only downside of this preview is that it sets the release date in april, although it has been march before. On the official sites it's still march, but I'm worried that the delaying-marathon keeps going on.

Kinta

by **Eclipse** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 4:48 pm

Really looking forward to this coming out, though I hope it won't be really hard to find

by **Elder** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 7:36 am

I honestly can't wait to try Black Sigil and I will buy it the first day it's released.

by **Eclipse** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 4:32 pm

sadly I cannot afford it the day it releases but as soon after as I can I will

. I wonder what the studio will do next, they have been working no this game for probably like 4-6 years :S.

Edit: Scratch that, I just pre-ordered the game on amazon with some tax return money. I want to make sure I get a copy and that might be hard to do with a few as they are releasing. Now I just have to hope it's good, haha

by **Beeberman** » Tue Apr 21, 2009 7:28 am

very nice packshot
http://www.amazon.com/Black-Sigil-Blade ... 757&sr=8-1

sadly, the game will not release in EU

and its complicated to get a game from the USA.

by **Blackthirteen** » Wed May 13, 2009 10:08 am

So, is the game finally released???

I hope it's not delayed again...

by **Beeberman** » Thu May 14, 2009 9:07 pm

could someone give us a little review if he own the game !?

by **Kinta** » Fri May 15, 2009 7:53 am

The game has not been released yet and I think they delayed it again. The new release date is in June.

Kinta

by **Elder** » Fri May 15, 2009 7:56 am

Kinta wrote:The game has not been released yet and I think they delayed it again. The new release date is in June.

Kinta

I think it will start to become annoying to most fans waiting desperately for this game

Somehow Graffiti Entertainment remind me so much of Alten8...

by **Zemba** » Fri May 15, 2009 8:02 am

I remember a "Eternal Eden" game being delayed a lot too. lol
No criticism though, Laxius Force had been delayed for months as well ehehe

by **Blackthirteen** » Fri May 15, 2009 8:06 am

Of course Eternal Eden was delayed a lot, but not during a period of 1 year and a half

EE was delayed only during the last two months.

Black Sigil is pushed back each time the release date approach. That's okay if it happens 1-2 times, but they've done it a dozen of times I think.

I just can't wait to get my hands on this jewel

by **Beeberman** » Fri May 15, 2009 11:43 am

hmm maybe it will never be released...
its a game anounced for the gba maby it comes out for the nintendo DS 2 or something like that

(with gba grafics

).

by **Kinta** » Fri May 15, 2009 7:57 pm

@ Beeberman
It will be released, trust me. The game has already reached gold some weeks (months?) ago, but Graffiti is still looking for more retailers.
It's just a matter of time, we have to be patient. 8-)

Kinta

by **Blackthirteen** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 4:04 am

Source from RPGFan:

RPGFan wrote:Graffiti Entertainment has been getting a lot of criticism for their multitude of delays for Black Sigil. But the first thing they promised us when we met with them on the show floor was that the June 9th release date will hold firm, and you can expect it on store shelves (or in your mailbox if you ordered it online) in the coming days.

So the game is supposed to be released today? Anyone got a copy of the game now?

by **Elder** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 4:43 am

This sweet video just make me want the game RIGHT NOW :twisted:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J33N0QnWyj8

Better, it just make me want to develop games on real consoles!!

by **Beeberman** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 2:09 pm

Elder wrote:This sweet video just make me want the game RIGHT NOW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J33N0QnWyj8

Better, it just make me want to develop games on real consoles!!

yeah black sigil looks realy amazing. i think the style is more unique than a rpgmaker game.
maybe i could buy it somehow from the united states...

by **Kinta** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 2:18 pm

I bought it here:
ACME Online

It's a dutch import shop.

I can't wait to finally play it... but I'd really like to know the reason for the freezing of the game.

Kinta

by **Paralel** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 2:11 am

I like the game, it starts quite slow and remains a little slow paced for my tastes.

The graphics, and story overall are good.

I would give it an 3.5/10

The freezing seems to be an actual game stopping bug. It's too bad.

[EDIT: After playing the game for 5 hours I have changed my mind about it and have actually returned it after experiencing the freezing bug several times and losing significant progress]

by **Kinta** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:41 am

@ Paralel
Right now there's a discussion if the freezing only happens in pirated versions. Did you have any freezing up? And... did you buy it? :twisted:

Kinta

by **Beeberman** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:54 am

Kinta wrote:@ Paralel
Right now there's a discussion if the freezing only happens in pirated versions. Did you have any freezing up? And... did you buy it?

Kinta

hehe lol
but yes i thought about download it but i know that black sigil is from a small company so i will buy the game when i got more money. I save some money to buy "the conduit" for wii at the end of the month

by **Elder** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 2:56 pm

mmm that would be very harsh if all the freezing rumors started with pirate copies... the rumors could make real customers reticent to purchase real copies.

by **Beeberman** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:16 pm

Elder wrote:mmm that would be very harsh if all the freezing rumors started with pirate copies... the rumors could make real customers reticent to purchase real copies.

yes...
could someone explain about that freezing bug ???
could i finish the game??? how often apears this bug ???....

by **Kinta** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 7:31 am

Beeberman wrote:yes...
could someone explain about that freezing bug ???
could i finish the game??? how often apears this bug ???....

That's still a big mystery. It seems that this bug is totally random (which probably means that it has something to do with memory or data overflow issues). It can happen anywhere and anytime. But there are also some people who had NO freezing at all after 20 hours of playing. So perhaps not every game is affected (that could mean that it has something to do with the cartridges... perhaps there was an error in the production of them... but that's all pure speculation).

Kinta

by **Paralel** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 8:59 pm

Kinta wrote:@ Paralel
Right now there's a discussion if the freezing only happens in pirated versions. Did you have any freezing up? And... did you buy it?

Kinta

I didn't personally experience the freezing bug, just read a number of reports about it. And yes, I did buy my copy. For a small company like that, if we don't buy their games, there won't be any more. That's like chopping off your own hand.

by **Elder** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:22 pm

Paralel wrote:
Kinta wrote:@ Paralel
Right now there's a discussion if the freezing only happens in pirated versions. Did you have any freezing up? And... did you buy it?

Kinta

I didn't personally experience the freezing bug, just read a number of reports about it. And yes, I did buy my copy. For a small company like that, if we don't buy their games, there won't be any more. That's like chopping off your own hand.

Exactly, it's very important to support small and fragile companies.

by **Kinta** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:47 pm

Beeberman wrote:I save some money to buy "the conduit" for wii at the end of the month

Seems you have to wait a little longer because the game just got delayed in europe. It's going to be released on July 10th here.
Now you have plenty of time to play Black Sigil before that date. :lol:

I'll get the game tomorrow if I am lucky. I'll post my first impressions here then.

Kinta

by **Kinta** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:30 pm

I got Black Sigil today and I played almost 2 hours. So far it's very entertaining, I like the dialogues and the little details to explore (like hidden items or small sidequests). I read that some guys didn't like the overworld map because of its lack of details but I LOVE it! It's Mode-7!! Mode-7 is the best 3D on this planet! :lol:

The battles have been quite frequent on the world map but that's okay because the fights are fast paced and it doesn't take long to finish the enemies off. And I read that battles are even faster later on when you have more than one party member.
The visuals are amazing. You see some very fine pixel art and the animations are all nice to look at.
I'll post some further impressions soon.

Kinta

by **Beeberman** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 8:22 am

I read in a big german community (gamepro.de) only bad critcs...
to much random enemy encounter
to confusing dungeon design
story is borring
the gameplay is full of bugs
the battlesystem is to slow and got to much bugs
so only the design should be good

so i decide i dont want to buy the game

i am disappointed

by **Kinta** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 6:57 pm

I bet most of these people only played the game for two hours.
I played it for five hours now and I'm still having a lot of fun. It's true that the dungeons can be a bit tricky but it's very rewarding to look in every corner because there are many hidden treasure chests. And the encounter rate is maybe high but that hasn't been a problem yet. The battles are sometimes quite challenging and I won a boss battle only after my party was nearly annihilated (and there was no save point before this battle) but I felt great after that! (okay, I must admit that I would have smashed my DS if I would have seen the Game Over screen :lol:

)

So perhaps you should reconsider your decision because I think it's a very nice game so far.

Kinta

by **Elder** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 8:44 pm

I agree with Kinta, there are a lot of picky gamers and trolls out there. Most of them are blinded by next-gen games and discriminate old-style games as bad games for esthetical reasons.

Eternal Eden is a good example to demonstrate this. The game can be repelling for many gamers, but those who gave it a try with a humble mind loved it.

Well, it's hard to give my opinion on Black Sigil because I haven't tried it. I will only be able to afford it in September because of my nomadic trip.

by **Beeberman** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:57 am

Elder wrote:I agree with Kinta, there are a lot of picky gamers and trolls out there. Most of them are blinded by next-gen games and discriminate old-style games as bad games for esthetical reasons.

Eternal Eden is a good example to demonstrate this. The game can be repelling for many gamers, but those who gave it a try with a humble mind loved it.

Well, it's hard to give my opinion on Black Sigil because I haven't tried it. I will only be able to afford it in September because of my nomadic trip.

Hmm this guys who give me a review alle sayed that the grafic is nice.
another point is that the increasment of your atributes by a levelup is to small...
i wait to play this game and look at some reviews from magazines.
i hope the new M!Games (best German GamingMagazine) on friday got a review.

by **Kinta** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 7:04 am

Beeberman wrote:i hope the new M!Games (best German GamingMagazine) on friday got a review.

I think the chances are not very high because the game hasn't been released in germany and import reviews are quite rare. But good luck!

Kinta

by **Beeberman** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 4:22 pm

Kinta wrote:
Beeberman wrote:i hope the new M!Games (best German GamingMagazine) on friday got a review.

I think the chances are not very high because the game hasn't been released in germany and import reviews are quite rare. But good luck!

Kinta

But there are some import reviews in every M!Games and often import RPGs

.

by **sonic_reaper** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 5:11 am

I'm 10 hours in but I'm starting over because I just learned I missed a one-time treasure chest during an event. Grr. I hate things like that. Drives perfectionist players like me crazy.

Overall, the game is good. Not amazing. But good. I will agree that if the battles had been less frequent, the game would have risen from good to great. It's not that the battles are difficult or annoying, it's that the areas are so detailed and lush, you can't help but explore. The way the game is designed BEGS for exploration, but it's very difficult to enjoy any of the areas because there's an encounter every three steps. A shame. Doesn't ruin the game by any means, but it adds a strange quality to it where you'll find yourself standing in one spot and sort of "surveying" the area before moving, since, moving and exploring at the same time means you'll run into way too many random encounters.

by **Kinta** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 7:59 am

sonic_reaper wrote:Doesn't ruin the game by any means, but it adds a strange quality to it where you'll find yourself standing in one spot and sort of "surveying" the area before moving, since, moving and exploring at the same time means you'll run into way too many random encounters.

That's exactly what I'm doing all the time. :lol:

And I'm pretty sure that I missed tons of treasure chests... but that's okay. As long as I get all the hidden characters it's fine.

Kinta

by **Paralel** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:13 am

One thing I am very disappointed with regarding this game is the stolen sprites. There are some very obvious sprites taken from other titles. Maybe they are small enough to get away with it, but it's not cool. I guess they will just need to keep their fingers crossed that Square doesn't catch up with them.

I've also run into the black screen of death a few times now, and lost some significant progress, which made me rather angry. I ended up returning the game saying it was defective. Apparently I wasn't the only one and they refunded me store credit which I used to get something else I also wanted.

by **Elder** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 4:53 am

Except those things, were you happy with other aspects of the game? Was the atmosphere was deep? Was the storyline engrossing?

I'm mainly trying to know why Eternal Eden was generally well-received by the public (a game created with RPG Maker!) while Black Sigil received very bad critics from gamers (a game made on NDS for god's sake!).

by **IkimashoZ** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:07 am

Elder wrote:Except those things, were you happy with other aspects of the game? Was the atmosphere was deep? Was the storyline engrossing?

I'm mainly trying to know why Eternal Eden was generally well-received by the public (a game created with RPG Maker!) while Black Sigil received very bad critics from gamers (a game made on NDS for god's sake!).

I haven't played Black Sigil, but based on this post and the RPGFan review, my guess would be that, while most gamers are unaware of it consciously, we ("gamers" as a group) are incredibly tuned to the elements of games that make them "fun", mostly difficulty, story, plot progression, game flow, and game mechanics, one element of which I call "action version narrative state balance".

Perhaps being surrounded by language theory for the last two years has warped my brain, but bear with me and allow me to propose something (If you don't care about my crazy theories, just stop reading now). Most games nowadays have some kind of narrative driving the action of the game. RPGs have been doing this a long time. When story scenes are happening, when the player is reading text or wandering around a town map, the player is most likely in a "narrative state mode". They are interacting with the game in terms of a story. In RPGs, when a battle happens, the player is engaging with the game environment completely differently. They are performing strategic processing. The characters are no longer story elements, but chess pieces to be manipulated into achieving the battle's win state. Once the battle is over, if the character is still in a dungeon, the player is likely still in strategic (or "action") mode if other battles are imminent.

I've noticed that gamers dislike maintaining either state for any extended period of time. This, to me, is why it's hard to play Civilization from beginning to end in one sitting. Even when the strategy is done extraordinarily well, it is still difficult for the player to mentally maintain that state for more than an hour or two on end. In the case of Civilization, sometimes three, four or five might be possible. But, eventually, the brain needs a break. (And why even in Civilization you've got a Civilopedia!)

Here's where, theoretically speaking, Eternal Eden successfully trumps Black Sigil (based on what I know from this thread and the review). Black Sigil tries to keep the player in the action state for far too long. Thus, you get reactions, like Neal, who said something akin to, "I can forgive many of the small failings of Black Sigil, but I can't forgive the fact that there are too many random battles". Eternal Eden forces players out of strategic thinking in the middle of dungeons, with dialogue scenes. There are also many different kinds of strategic thinking, such as dungeon puzzles and mini-games. Part of Black Sigil's problem might be that the same kind of strategic mode is being forced repetitively. I'd be curious to know if there are any puzzles or mini-games in it.

Elder, it's just a guess on my part, but it seems to me, (and I admit now, I'm just guessing and I haven't played Black Sigil!) that you just had a better sense of game mechanics (probably innately) than did the developers of Black Sigil.

I should blog about gaming theory sometime... (And before anyone suggests it, "game theory" is already taken. By mathematicians. Damn those mathematicians).

by **Kinta** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:32 am

I also have to admit that there are too many battles.
The difference between EE and BS is that you can't avoid them in BS and in EE you shouldn't avoid them. That still makes a huge difference. If I had to choose between the dungeons of EE and BS I'd choose EE's. They were a lot more fun even though they were inferior on the graphical side. I often feel like I'm rushing through the dungeons to have as few encounters as possible and that's really sad because there's a LOT to explore.
But I'm still enjoying this game. I hope I can keep my motivation up till the end.

Kinta

by **Paralel** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 2:48 pm

Elder wrote:Except those things, were you happy with other aspects of the game? Was the atmosphere was deep? Was the storyline engrossing?

I'm mainly trying to know why Eternal Eden was generally well-received by the public (a game created with RPG Maker!) while Black Sigil received very bad critics from gamers (a game made on NDS for god's sake!).

Once I got about 5 hours in it seemed rather obvious that the game was basically unfinished. A number of little things that make a game more enjoyable weren't implemented. The transition to battles was missing, which was surprising since this is a standard feature of RPG's going back 20 years. The display for battle information was poorly constructed. You had health, but then a number above that with no label. Once you use your SP it became apparent that was it, but otherwise it wasn't obvious. The display for character stats should be completely intuitive and informative at first glance. The battle backgrounds were bland and uninteresting. The same can be said for the sprites of monsters, the graphical effects for special abilities, as well as the sound effects in battle. The overworld map was also quite banal and lacking in detail. The music overall was also somewhat inferior. The frequency of random battles was about 50% too high, and for many people that can be a make-it-or-break-it point.

To sum it all up it was unfinished, uninspired, and redundant. It felt like a poor quality clone of one of Squares 16-bit projects.

To be perfectly honest, after playing EE, even Amanda's latest effort, Aveyond: Lord of Twilight, felt inferior in a number of ways. At a conscious or unconscious level, Elder, you managed to strike a resonant note with the RPG community.

The only thing with regard to EE that I felt really needed improvement was the dialogue. The story and associated elements were good, but the grammar, structure, and spelling ruined it. When more complex elements of the story were being explained the aforementioned defects could make it difficult to understand what was trying to be conveyed. Elder, for your next project, if you could get someone with an advanced degree in English Language or Literature to go over the script you would have a AAA title on your hands.

by **IkimashoZ** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:21 pm

Paralel wrote:Elder, for your next project, if you could get someone with an advanced degree in English Language or Literature to go over the script you would have a AAA title on your hands.

Did I mention I'm working on a graduate degree in languages... and that I got my BA in English Lit??

by **Kinta** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 4:47 pm

@ Paralel
In a way I can understand your disappointment, but I also think that you're a bit exaggerating. I think BS does a pretty good job to catch up with the feeling of the old SNES RPGs. But you also have to take into consideration that it's their first game! I think they've done an incredible job with that in mind!
That also means that we can expect games from them in the future that are a lot more polished.

Kinta

by **Paralel** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:13 pm

Kinta wrote:@ Paralel
In a way I can understand your disappointment, but I also think that you're a bit exaggerating. I think BS does a pretty good job to catch up with the feeling of the old SNES RPGs. But you also have to take into consideration that it's their first game! I think they've done an incredible job with that in mind!
That also means that we can expect games from them in the future that are a lot more polished.

Kinta

However, the gaming community is not very forgiving when it comes to putting out sub-par material. Most of the stuff I mentioned could be forgiven if it wasn't for the fact that the game was in endless development and is still left wanting, but stolen art and bugs that actually break the game (with no way for it to be patched) are like an acute poison, promptly fatal. Producing a game with those kinds of flaws has killed larger companies than Studio Archcraft, and I have little doubt they will indeed succumb to the same fate. This will most likely be Studio Archcraft's first and last product.

by **Elder** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:30 pm

When you say stolen arts, do you really mean it, or they just imitated the 16 bits style?

Let's remind that even in the current 3D market, most games looks the same when style, models and textures are involved. It's not a bad thing for me when they provide me great moments.

by **Paralel** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:44 pm

Elder wrote:When you say stolen arts, do you really mean it, or they just imitated the 16 bits style?

Let's remind that even in the current 3D market, most games looks the same when style, models and textures are involved. It's not a bad thing for me when they provide me great moments.

The art in question is quite clearly sprites extracted from Square games and modified to obscure their origin (although not very well). The main character is probably one of the more obvious examples. The proportion, the movement when walking towards the screen, the side movement, the movement of the hair, the characters various expressions (particularly the surprised expression), the battle stance, are all taken directly from Crono of Chrono Trigger. I'm not the only one to notice this either. If you search you will see a number of people have come to the same conclusions with regard to the same graphics, characters, and their origins independently. The odds of a number of individuals from various locations that have never met before reaching the same specific conclusion with regard to the same set of graphics and not being correct is, for all intents and purposes, infantesimal. If you played the game for an hour and saw the graphics being used I have absolutely no doubt you would reach the same conclusion.

I would never make accusations as such without being very confident it is the truth.

by **IkimashoZ** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:38 pm

Art is a tricky thing. How much alteration is necessary before something is "unique"? Did Elder "lift" the story of Adam and Eve out of the bible? Under these terms, were anyone to own the intellectual rights to the text of the bible, they could sue Elder for "extracting" this story and "modifying" it.

Intellectual property rights exist mostly to make sure that person x is allowed enough exclusivity to make money off of something creative that person x made, without having to worry about persons y and z leeching off of person x's great idea. Now, in the US, there's been a lot of corporations screwing with these laws, the most famous one being Disney, but in principle, this is how it should work.

I haven't played Black Sigil, but based on the youtube video (which, admittedly, makes it very hard to see details), it looks as though, even if there was a "modification" of Chrono sprites going on, at least half of the pixels have been altered. What looks more likely is that someone who REALLY likes Akira Toriyama did the artwork for the game, and followed his style very, very closely. Again, I haven't played this game, and I'm not presuming to have.

by **sonic_reaper** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:52 pm

First off, the sprites in question are not modified Chrono Trigger sprites, or otherwise. This has been addressed by Black Sigil's director. As a pixel artist myself, I can attest to that. The sprites are 100% original and not modified. And in my view, some of the sprites needed some more work (Aurora in particular--her hair moves very unnaturally, or not at all when she walks and runs).

Second, first week sales have been roughly 17,000. This, actually, is enough to ensure a profit and future games. I am quite confident in a sequel (and for reasons beyond simply the sales numbers, but ones I cannot get into).

Third, people are being way too hard on this game. The only glaring problem, in my eyes, with the product, is the high encounter rate. It mars the experience, but doesn't ruin it completely. My frustration stems from the fact that this problem could have easily been alleviated by decreasing the number of random encounters and simply increasing the EXP and Gold after battles to compensate. Even that I am unsure is necessary since at the moment, if you fight every encounter, your party is guaranteed to be overlelled at some point in the game.

The art, music, story, characters, and even the battle system are no better or worse than what has been produced by other, large professional companies, in the past. As for the bugs and glitches, I cannot speak for that since I haven't encountered one in my roughly 12 hours with the game.

Fourth, I offered Eric to look over Eternal Eden's script before release, to correct syntax and grammar, but he wouldn't allow it. I was a little disappointed, since I agree, that the final product would have been that much better had the tiny grammar errors been fixed. I don't have a degree in English, but I've taken university English classes and know enough to have caught many of the simple errors that were made.

by **Elder** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:11 pm

sonic_reaper wrote:Fourth, I offered Eric to look over Eternal Eden's script before release, to correct syntax and grammar, but he wouldn't allow it. I was a little disappointed, since I agree, that the final product would have been that much better had the tiny grammar errors been fixed. I don't have a degree in English, but I've taken university English classes and know enough to have caught many of the simple errors that were made.

Hey Sonic!

My intent wasn't to neglect your help but working with RPG Maker as a team is a pain, you cannot export or import files at ease saldy. Sending over the master file would have just prevented me to do my regular work on Eternal Eden while waiting for someone else's changes. Luckily I've discovered new techniques with Nick, but it was already the end of the project.

Besides BackOrder (aka From_Russia_with_Love, aka Ian Trudel) is working on small tools that could improve this aspect, but given that I cannot send a full payment to him before July 15th to benefit of a rabate I will be forced to pay the full price (1500$) in September and I cannot afford such pricing.

Anyway I have other alternatives under my sleeves. Things should be better with EE2.

by **Kinta** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:20 pm

sonic_reaper wrote:Second, first week sales have been roughly 17,000.

Where did you get this information? I'm very glad to hear that because I wish Studio Archcraft all the best!
I played Black Sigil for 13 hours now and I'm still having a good time with it. I agree that they didn't use the full potential of this game but as it's their first release it's still a great achievement!

Kinta

by **sonic_reaper** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:38 pm

VGcharts, surprisingly, has the sales data for Black Sigil.

http://www.vgchartz.com/games/game.php? ... region=All

Apparently it's at (almost) 20,000 now if I am reading that correctly.

by **Elder** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 10:38 pm

Then that's extremely good!

Besides, I am currently writing a review of Black Sigil on Gamezopher.

by **Beeberman** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:02 am

sonic_reaper wrote:VGcharts, surprisingly, has the sales data for Black Sigil.

http://www.vgchartz.com/games/game.php? ... region=All

Apparently it's at (almost) 20,000 now if I am reading that correctly.

wow for such a hmm "good" DS Game its selling very good.

by **Kinta** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:44 am

Elder wrote:Then that's extremely good!

Besides, I am currently writing a review of Black Sigil on Gamezopher.

I didn't know that you played it. :shock:

And yeah, 20.000 are a lot!

Kinta

by **sonic_reaper** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:00 am

The criticism towards the game is, for some reason, very loud (and obnoxious). From the sales, you can see there are fans and supporters. For whatever reason, they're not as vocal as the trolls. Searching any internet forum, you'll get the wrong idea, since you'll mostly just come across negative criticisms. The only "fatal flaw" the game performs, as I've mentioned, is the high encounter rate. But that doesn't ruin the game by any means.

by **Elder** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:09 am

Kinta wrote:I didn't know that you played it.

Yes but sadly my attention is now turned to Deadly Sin :lol:

by **Kinta** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 4:42 pm

sonic_reaper wrote:The criticism towards the game is, for some reason, very loud (and obnoxious). From the sales, you can see there are fans and supporters. For whatever reason, they're not as vocal as the trolls. Searching any internet forum, you'll get the wrong idea, since you'll mostly just come across negative criticisms. The only "fatal flaw" the game performs, as I've mentioned, is the high encounter rate. But that doesn't ruin the game by any means.

That's really a sad truth...

Elder wrote:Yes but sadly my attention is now turned to Deadly Sin

I played it for about ten minutes today and it seemed like a solid title to me. The music was extremely good! But I was a bit disappointed that you couldn't examine your surroundings. There were quite a few chests here and there but overall the house in the beginning seemed just like a house and not like her home.

Kinta

by **Paralel** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 4:44 pm

sonic_reaper wrote:The criticism towards the game is, for some reason, very loud (and obnoxious). From the sales, you can see there are fans and supporters. For whatever reason, they're not as vocal as the trolls. Searching any internet forum, you'll get the wrong idea, since you'll mostly just come across negative criticisms. The only "fatal flaw" the game performs, as I've mentioned, is the high encounter rate. But that doesn't ruin the game by any means.

Sonic, just because you are a fanboy of this game doesn't mean you have to be an (obnoxious) ****. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. We'll just have to wait and see what the future holds. If Archcraft is smart they will take all the criticism, distill it down to legitimate gripes, and apply that to their next title, which, if their development history is any indication, should be out around 2015.

by **Elder** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:39 pm

Hey guys, please no attack against each other.

It's obvious that no one have the same degree of satisfaction. It's pointless to debate.

by **Elder** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:33 pm

Anyway, about ripping the game graphics I cannot pronounce myself on this subject as I used 90% of the RTP material with RPG Maker to create Eternal Eden.

I think that Archcraft Studio are in a better position than me for this matter.

by **sonic_reaper** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:37 pm

I don't really understand how I am being obnoxious. Everything I've stated is the truth.

The game's graphics are not ripped from Chrono Trigger. The game is selling well (enough for a sequel anyway). And the biggest complaint, which even I've mentioned, is the encounter rate.

How is that being obnoxious? Please explain. Because if I'm a so-called "fanboy", then you're obviously a troll.

As far as I know, they're taking all the criticsm into consideration. I myself even offered them a suggestion on the encounter rate. And I even said they're sprites are nowhere near perfect. A fanboy certainly wouldn't do that.

I'm just trying to be fair and realistic. I didn't realize people could only either really love the game or really hate it. I'm just looking at the facts, as I always do, and as anyone with a good head on their shoulders would.

by **Paralel** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:17 am

I see what the problem is, you're completely delusional. The majority of the post in question was hyperbole and opinion, which, last I was aware, are not types of fact.

by **Kinta** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 12:31 pm

Rule No.1 on the internet:
"Never discuss with a Fanboy/troll about a game."

I don't mean to call either of you a fanboy/troll but I also don't see your discussion coming to a satisfying end.
The game has its positive and its negative aspects and none of it makes it perfect or unplayable.

Kinta

by **Beeberman** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 9:12 pm

hmm but i heard many bad things about the game too.
everyone i know who played the game was disapointed, you few guys in this forum are the exception

.
i think the game looks great but im not sure if the game is realy so great

by **IkimashoZ** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 9:25 pm

You'll never know until you try it. I'll probably pick up a copy after I finish school this December. At this point, I just want to see what all the fuss is about, and be able to have an opinion on the subject that isn't based on the promo movie.

BLOSSOMSOFT

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